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steercom:2023-05 [2023/05/01 15:58] 127.0.0.1 external edit |
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| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| * **QUESTION:** When have the recorders been started ( before call to order )? | * **QUESTION:** When have the recorders been started ( before call to order )? | ||
| - | * TIME: :?: | + | * TIME: 6:40pm |
| ====== Start STEERCOM Meeting ====== | ====== Start STEERCOM Meeting ====== | ||
| Line 54: | Line 54: | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| * **QUESTION:** When was STEERCOM meeting called to order? | * **QUESTION:** When was STEERCOM meeting called to order? | ||
| - | * TIME: :?: | + | * TIME: 6:40pm |
| Line 60: | Line 60: | ||
| Listed alphabetically by last name: | Listed alphabetically by last name: | ||
| - | :?: * James Conroy | + | * James Conroy |
| :?: * Jonathan Drews | :?: * Jonathan Drews | ||
| - | :?: * David Forrest | + | * David Forrest |
| :?: * Ken Johnson | :?: * Ken Johnson | ||
| - | :?: * Lee Lammert | + | * Lee Lammert |
| - | :?: * Gary Meyer | + | * Gary Meyer |
| - | :?: * Stan Reichardt | + | * Stan Reichardt |
| - | :?: * Steve Stegmann | + | * Steve Stegmann |
| - | :?: * Sean Twiehaus | + | * Sean Twiehaus |
| ====== Secretary Report ====== | ====== Secretary Report ====== | ||
| Line 87: | Line 87: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: Stan R acting only as recording secretary. | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: Stan R acting only as recording secretary. | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: Stan R acting only as recording secretary. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Stan R acting only as recording secretary. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Stan R acting only as recording secretary. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ====== Treasurer Report ====== | ====== Treasurer Report ====== | ||
| - | ^ Balance as of 1 March | | ||$2,604.01 | | + | ^ Balance as of 1 April | | ||$2,604.01 | |
| - | ^ Balance as of 31 March | | ||$2,604.01 | | + | ^ Balance as of 30 April | | ||$2,604.01 | |
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Nothing spent and nothing taken in. |
| ====== Calendar Report ====== | ====== Calendar Report ====== | ||
| Line 186: | Line 185: | ||
| * Stan R's machine miraculously came back to life and some previous count extracts can be recovered. | * Stan R's machine miraculously came back to life and some previous count extracts can be recovered. | ||
| * Now he has to locate those files, or rebuild them from scratch. | * Now he has to locate those files, or rebuild them from scratch. | ||
| - | * :?: | ||
| ====== Subscriber Report ====== | ====== Subscriber Report ====== | ||
| Line 406: | Line 404: | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| * Stan R machine miraculously came back to life and some lost March recordings were recovered ( with STLLINUX count ). | * Stan R machine miraculously came back to life and some lost March recordings were recovered ( with STLLINUX count ). | ||
| - | * :?: | ||
| ====== Meeting Review Comments ====== | ====== Meeting Review Comments ====== | ||
| Line 453: | Line 450: | ||
| * February SLUUG BASE was **BtrFS Hands On ( File System )** by Lee Lammert | * February SLUUG BASE was **BtrFS Hands On ( File System )** by Lee Lammert | ||
| * March SLUUG BASE was **Demo of LibreOffice Database** by Stan Reichardt | * March SLUUG BASE was **Demo of LibreOffice Database** by Stan Reichardt | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Sufficient questions, could have been more. |
| ---- | ---- | ||
| ** COOKIE TIME ~ ANNOUNCEMENTS ~ CALL FOR HELP (Gooey Middle): ** | ** COOKIE TIME ~ ANNOUNCEMENTS ~ CALL FOR HELP (Gooey Middle): ** | ||
| ---- | ---- | ||
| + | |||
| * [[http://www.sluug.org/|SLUUG General Meeting]] | * [[http://www.sluug.org/|SLUUG General Meeting]] | ||
| * [[http://www.sluug.org/steercom/planning.pdf|Planning Schedule Report ]] | * [[http://www.sluug.org/steercom/planning.pdf|Planning Schedule Report ]] | ||
| Line 472: | Line 471: | ||
| * February SLUUG MAIN was **YADM - Yet Another Dotfiles Manager** by Sean Twiehaus | * February SLUUG MAIN was **YADM - Yet Another Dotfiles Manager** by Sean Twiehaus | ||
| * March SLUUG MAIN was **Future of OpenSuSE** by Lee Lammert | * March SLUUG MAIN was **Future of OpenSuSE** by Lee Lammert | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Sean thought above our groups intrest level. Not useful or practicle. |
| + | * Gary was supprised by level of Intel's contribution. Was less practicle than expected. | ||
| ==== STLLINUX - April 20th, 2023 ==== | ==== STLLINUX - April 20th, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 480: | Line 480: | ||
| * LINUX | * LINUX | ||
| * STATUS: **Done** | * STATUS: **Done** | ||
| - | * WHAT: **Stack overflows in linux** | + | * WHAT: **Stack overflows in Linux** |
| * BY: Bryce Meyer | * BY: Bryce Meyer | ||
| * SYNOPSIS: tools, methods, & vulnerabilities. | * SYNOPSIS: tools, methods, & vulnerabilities. | ||
| Line 491: | Line 491: | ||
| * February STLLINUX was **Design Like CRAP!** by Scott Granneman | * February STLLINUX was **Design Like CRAP!** by Scott Granneman | ||
| * March STLLINUX was **Favorite Linux Commands**by Various Volunteer | * March STLLINUX was **Favorite Linux Commands**by Various Volunteer | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Lee though very interesting, a firehose pointed at our brains. |
| + | * Stan was suprised at how well Bryce covered all the slides presented. | ||
| + | * Was some additional appreciation expressed after presention. | ||
| + | * Sean thought it the best presntation of year so far. Very perfectly relevant and engaging. | ||
| + | * Sean thought it better than his usual video game. | ||
| + | * Gary said it was difficult to sync our meeting times with Bryce's schedule. | ||
| + | * Gary would like more commentary in DISCUSS after each meeting. We need to seed DISCUSS. | ||
| ==== NEWLINUX - April 25th, 2023 ==== | ==== NEWLINUX - April 25th, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 504: | Line 510: | ||
| * Stan R had considerable difficulty get sound to work. Sound finally started working at end of test period. | * Stan R had considerable difficulty get sound to work. Sound finally started working at end of test period. | ||
| * Problems might have been because of Jitsi testing he had tried doing the day before. | * Problems might have been because of Jitsi testing he had tried doing the day before. | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Couple of new attendees. A question about carring over time stamps from NTFS to Linux files system. |
| ====== Meeting Schedule ====== | ====== Meeting Schedule ====== | ||
| Line 536: | Line 542: | ||
| * Usuallly nine days prior to SLUUG MAIN General Meeting. | * Usuallly nine days prior to SLUUG MAIN General Meeting. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * We are here. |
| ==== SLACC - May 4th, 2023 ==== | ==== SLACC - May 4th, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 542: | Line 548: | ||
| * Usually holds a **Linux Workshop** offering installation and configuration help - no presentation | * Usually holds a **Linux Workshop** offering installation and configuration help - no presentation | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Stan and Phil will be there. |
| ==== SLUUG - May 10th, 2023 ==== | ==== SLUUG - May 10th, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 570: | Line 576: | ||
| * MAIN (Professional Computing): | * MAIN (Professional Computing): | ||
| * STATUS: **Available** | * STATUS: **Available** | ||
| - | * WHAT: **To Be Determined (TBD)** | + | * WHAT: **SQL Rants** |
| - | * BY: TBD | + | * BY: Stephen Lembark |
| * SYNOPSIS: NA | * SYNOPSIS: NA | ||
| * WRANGLER: NA | * WRANGLER: NA | ||
| Line 581: | Line 587: | ||
| * March SLUUG MAIN was **Future of OpenSuSE** by Lee Lammert | * March SLUUG MAIN was **Future of OpenSuSE** by Lee Lammert | ||
| * April SLUUG MAIN was **Intel's Contributions to Open Source** by Katherine Druckman | * April SLUUG MAIN was **Intel's Contributions to Open Source** by Katherine Druckman | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * We might get the slide deck, then post on BOCK and send link to STEERCOM mailing list. |
| ==== STLLINUX - May 18th, 2023 ==== | ==== STLLINUX - May 18th, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 589: | Line 595: | ||
| * LINUX | * LINUX | ||
| * STATUS: **Available** | * STATUS: **Available** | ||
| - | * WHAT: **To Be Determined (TBD)** | + | * WHAT: **DSUB ~ Simple Batch Jobs with Docker** |
| - | * BY: Bryce Meyer | + | * BY: Robert Citek |
| * SYNOPSIS: NA | * SYNOPSIS: NA | ||
| * WRANGLER: NA | * WRANGLER: NA | ||
| Line 600: | Line 606: | ||
| * March STLLINUX was **Favorite Linux Commands**by Various Volunteer | * March STLLINUX was **Favorite Linux Commands**by Various Volunteer | ||
| * April STLLINUX was **Stack Based Attacks in Linux**by Bryce Meyer | * April STLLINUX was **Stack Based Attacks in Linux**by Bryce Meyer | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * We have slide deck, will post on BOCK and send link to STEERCOM mailing list. |
| ==== NEWLINUX - May 23rd, 2023 ==== | ==== NEWLINUX - May 23rd, 2023 ==== | ||
| Line 631: | Line 637: | ||
| * Mike Knight found 4.4 Gb of data that Stan R had temporarily hosted for BUGLug. | * Mike Knight found 4.4 Gb of data that Stan R had temporarily hosted for BUGLug. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Still running. Expect to upgrade from Debian 10 to 11 sometime this year. |
| ===== Web Site SLUUG.ORG Maintenance ===== | ===== Web Site SLUUG.ORG Maintenance ===== | ||
| Line 653: | Line 659: | ||
| * Stan R. way behind in website updates. | * Stan R. way behind in website updates. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Stan R. starting to catch up ( somewhat ). Barely keeping up. Little reoganization as hoped. |
| ===== Web Site MEETUP.COM Maintenance ===== | ===== Web Site MEETUP.COM Maintenance ===== | ||
| Line 667: | Line 673: | ||
| * Gary had been locked out by MEETUP for 5 hours. | * Gary had been locked out by MEETUP for 5 hours. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * It sucks is pain in posterior. |
| ===== Uploading Presentations ===== | ===== Uploading Presentations ===== | ||
| Line 680: | Line 686: | ||
| * Keeping up ( I think ~ Stan R ). | * Keeping up ( I think ~ Stan R ). | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Keeping up. Might have some old ones that haven't been uploadn and linked before. Slow but steady. |
| ===== Our Internet Presence on Other Social Media ===== | ===== Our Internet Presence on Other Social Media ===== | ||
| Line 698: | Line 704: | ||
| * Gary M will approach Granneman about Mastadon. | * Gary M will approach Granneman about Mastadon. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * A significant number of TWITTER users have moved over to the social media technology ( beta ) of the week, [[https://staging.bsky.com | BlueSky]]. | + | * A significant number of TWITTER users have moved over to the social media technology ( beta ) of the |
| - | * Stan R watched and recommends Sunday's netcast of **This Week in Tech** panel [[https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech/episodes/925?autostart=false | discussion]] on Twit TV about current social media. | + | * week, [[https://staging.bsky.com | BlueSky]]. |
| - | * :?: | + | * Stan R watched and recommends Sunday's netcast of **This Week in Tech** |
| + | * panel [[https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-tech/episodes/925?autostart=false | discussion]] on Twit TV about current social media. | ||
| + | * Still same issues for us. | ||
| ===== Hybrid Meetings ===== | ===== Hybrid Meetings ===== | ||
| Line 751: | Line 759: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: James Conroy says doing too hard. | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: James Conroy says doing too hard. | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: Free Beer and Pizza would be a large draw. We need to consider further. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Free Beer and Pizza would be a large draw. We need to consider further. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Our policy should be to encourage anyone else that wants to do all the work. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Camera and Microphone and Projectors ===== | ===== Camera and Microphone and Projectors ===== | ||
| Line 762: | Line 769: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: Per Stan R someone else should probably take custody of the SLUUG projector. | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: Per Stan R someone else should probably take custody of the SLUUG projector. | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: Nobody else wants it. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Nobody else wants it. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: I still have main projector. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Attendance Database ===== | ===== Attendance Database ===== | ||
| Line 774: | Line 780: | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * LibreOffice BASE file up to date and available for download from https://www.sluug.org/steercom/ page. |
| ===== Change BASE and MAIN Structure ===== | ===== Change BASE and MAIN Structure ===== | ||
| Line 809: | Line 815: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: Shorter BASE sessions working fine. Good if we could only get more volunteers. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Shorter BASE sessions working fine. Good if we could only get more volunteers. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Hope to keep them down to 30 to 45 minutes at most. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Planning Schedule Report Database ===== | ===== Planning Schedule Report Database ===== | ||
| Line 827: | Line 833: | ||
| * Excellent body of work. We all should review more often. Might make back up presentation filler. | * Excellent body of work. We all should review more often. Might make back up presentation filler. | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: demoed at STEERCOM meeting. | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: demoed at STEERCOM meeting. | ||
| - | * 2023-04-03 Comments: * Stan R will continue updating. | + | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Stan R will continue updating. |
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Stan R makes updates multiple times a day. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Sanjive Item ===== | ===== Sanjive Item ===== | ||
| Line 846: | Line 851: | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: | * 2023-04-03 Comments: | ||
| * Gary M embarrassed, needs to contact sometime soon. | * Gary M embarrassed, needs to contact sometime soon. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Still needs to contact him. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Handouts ===== | ===== Handouts ===== | ||
| Line 864: | Line 868: | ||
| * Minor update to our **Why Use Linux** handout made for Stan R presentation. Also linked on Presentation Archives page. | * Minor update to our **Why Use Linux** handout made for Stan R presentation. Also linked on Presentation Archives page. | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | ||
| - | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Stan R plannig on a new handout. Don't know when he'll get to it. | + | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Stan R planning on a new handout. Don't know when he'll get to it. |
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Stan R still hasn't done the new handout. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Linux Stickers ===== | ===== Linux Stickers ===== | ||
| Line 881: | Line 884: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: James C will look at graphic that Lee sent him. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: James C will look at graphic that Lee sent him. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Lee sent file to James C. The plan is still active. Background color issues. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== ANNOUNCE Mailing List ===== | ===== ANNOUNCE Mailing List ===== | ||
| Line 896: | Line 898: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March:: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: It works. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Hardware Donations ===== | ===== Hardware Donations ===== | ||
| Line 907: | Line 908: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: None |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Organizational Papers ===== | ===== Organizational Papers ===== | ||
| Line 921: | Line 921: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: Gary M still has the cardboard box. Should be elevated to avoid mold, etc. | * 2023-04-03 Comments: Gary M still has the cardboard box. Should be elevated to avoid mold, etc. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Still there. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== Sponsorships ===== | ===== Sponsorships ===== | ||
| Line 938: | Line 937: | ||
| * Meetup offer made from Creve Coeur firm needs to be evaluate. | * Meetup offer made from Creve Coeur firm needs to be evaluate. | ||
| * We need to poll interest amoung next meeting attendees. | * We need to poll interest amoung next meeting attendees. | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: * Gary should call Creve Coeur outfit. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ===== We Need Help ===== | ===== We Need Help ===== | ||
| Line 962: | Line 960: | ||
| * Gary M or one of us should ask about overall interest in attending face-to-face. | * Gary M or one of us should ask about overall interest in attending face-to-face. | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Gary needs a clone. Stan R needs a raise. Doubled my salary. |
| ====== New Business ====== | ====== New Business ====== | ||
| Line 976: | Line 973: | ||
| * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: None | ||
| * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | * 2023-04-03 Comments: None | ||
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | * 2023-05-01 Comments: Tonight channel 4.1 KMOV TV Scott Granemann speaking. |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | ====== Counting Ballots ====== | + | |
| - | // SUMMARY: We usually count ballots before STEERCOM meeting and submit to a board meeting for approval. Board members usually help counting. // | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | * Volunteers count https://www.sluug.org/ballot2023.pdf ballots | + | |
| - | * Submit ballot results to SLUUG Board of Governors for review and appointment of Officers | + | |
| - | * 2023-02-27 Comments for March: | + | |
| - | * Stan R can demonstrate how easily the LibreOffice ATTENDANCE database can be used to verify voter attendance. | + | |
| - | * We didn't think about the following concequences of things at the last STEERCOM meeting: | + | |
| - | * The ballots were not made and available for any January meeting. | + | |
| - | * The ballots, election and voting was not discussed during the January NEWLINUX meeting. | + | |
| - | * The next NEWLINUX meeting ( 28 March ) will not be until after today's meeting ( 27 March ). | + | |
| - | * The ballot does not indicate when ballots will be counted; but, probably should at latest, be prior to next SLUUG MAIN General meeting ( 8 March ). | + | |
| - | * QUESTION: When will we count ballots? | + | |
| - | * Tentatively, we will count ballots 7 March. | + | |
| - | * 2023-04-03 Comments: | + | |
| - | * We counted them. Phil Bunch fine with election as Board membership and duty. | + | |
| - | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | + | |
| - | * :?: | + | |
| ====== Recurring Requirements ====== | ====== Recurring Requirements ====== | ||
| Line 1016: | Line 993: | ||
| * | * | ||
| * April 2023 - First Saturday, reserve rooms at St. Louis County Library Branches. | * April 2023 - First Saturday, reserve rooms at St. Louis County Library Branches. | ||
| - | * April 2023 - IRS Form 990-N for Tax Exempt Status. e-postcard. | + | * April 2023 - IRS Form 990-N for Tax Exempt Status. e-postcard. filed March 2023. |
| * | * | ||
| * May 2023 - LetsEncrypt renews every 60 days early ( 30 day grace period ). | * May 2023 - LetsEncrypt renews every 60 days early ( 30 day grace period ). | ||
| Line 1053: | Line 1030: | ||
| * **QUESTION:** Did anyone do anything helpful or useful? | * **QUESTION:** Did anyone do anything helpful or useful? | ||
| * | * | ||
| - | * 2023-04-03 Comments: | ||
| - | * Lee posted on and updated BOCK. | ||
| - | * Stan R still alive and breathing. Hip Hip Horray!! | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * :?: | + | * Lee did paperwork. |
| + | * Stan filled in for secretary ( recording minutes only ). | ||
| ====== Follow-up and Action Items ====== | ====== Follow-up and Action Items ====== | ||
| Line 1071: | Line 1046: | ||
| * Don Ellis ~ Possible presentation - 2018-07-18 he had suggested Apple interfaces and accessories for audio & video. | * Don Ellis ~ Possible presentation - 2018-07-18 he had suggested Apple interfaces and accessories for audio & video. | ||
| * Don Ellis ~ Possible presentation on new ChromeBook Linux interface. July 2020 | * Don Ellis ~ Possible presentation on new ChromeBook Linux interface. July 2020 | ||
| - | * Don Ellis ~ **will/was to** investigate Google+ status | ||
| * Don Ellis ~ **will/was to** place credentials for YouTube and any others on Bock /home/sluug | * Don Ellis ~ **will/was to** place credentials for YouTube and any others on Bock /home/sluug | ||
| * | * | ||
| Line 1104: | Line 1078: | ||
| * :?: | * :?: | ||
| * **QUESTION:** At what time was STEERCOM meeting adjourned? | * **QUESTION:** At what time was STEERCOM meeting adjourned? | ||
| - | * TIME: :?: | ||
| ====== Stop Video Recordings ====== | ====== Stop Video Recordings ====== | ||
| * 2023-05-01 Comments: | * 2023-05-01 Comments: | ||
| - | * TIME: :?: | + | * TIME: 8:28pm |
| ====== Blue Sky Ideas ====== | ====== Blue Sky Ideas ====== | ||